Inspired by Dr. Rich Rice's writings and teachings, I am interested in learning how various Englishes and how various levels of those Englishes and their derivatives (e.g. technical communication) are taught throughout the world. Presented with the opportunity to engage in critical analysis of Xiaoye You's Writing in the Devil's Tongue: A History of English Composition in China with Chinese scholars at Texas Tech University, I invite my friends and colleagues to join in synchronous and asynchronous discussion of this book. Please post online and/or join us in person, or merely share your experiences of teaching abroad in English, the devil's tongue.Purpose: You writes (xii), "This book has been written for both composition teachers in the United States and English teachers in the rest of the world. The purpose is to bring the parties together to generate productive conversations." Let's come together to generate productive conversations!
First Meeting: October 2, (location changed!) Starbuck's in TTU Barnes & Noble, 9 a.m. U.S. Central time. Off-site readers, please post your comments below before the meeting so that we might incorporate your comments into our discussion!
First week's readings: Please read from the front cover through page 45 for discussion on October 2. E-mail me for the first reading.
Week 1 | October 2, 2015 | Front cover through page 45
ReplyDeleteOff-site readers, please post your comments here. We'll discuss them in our meeting!
This week's prompt is "Encountering the Devil's Tongue", a general discussion of our first impressions of the readings and an entry point to discussion about our experiences learning and teaching English as a native or non-native language.
Consider:
DeleteA) On page 20, You explains the ritualization of the Confucian gentleman. Has English been de-ritualized over recent decades? Is ritual gone from English language learning? What about modeling -- the modeling of "good" writing.
B) Could you challenge yourself to write an "eight legged" 八股 bagu, five policy ce 策, or lun 论 essay? (p. 22-25)
C) You discusses shifts in the way composition was taught, especially at the mission schools after the Second Opium War (1860's) through the early 1900's. Does his description of this transition resemble the postmodern shift seen in the U.S. in the '70's-present? If so, how? If not, why not?
During this morning's meeting I learned a lot from my students and from our Chinese visiting professors. Numbers of students impact pedagogical approaches in many significant ways, such as being able to offer more process in composition instruction if the number are lower. Imagine a system where through primary, secondary, and post-secondary education class sizes were 50+. Teachers can't read everything, therefore more emphasis on formulaic approaches to writing and on high stakes summative assessment is inevitable, and perhaps more emphasis on speaking and hearing than reading and writing. Mind you, this isn't always a bad thing, just different, and can be significantly different. For instance, I want my students to think critically about how what they're learning helps them solve problems in their lives. I think smaller numbers of students in a class enables me to push and pull and prod students in ways that get them closer to seeing the content as tools for problem-solving. Anyway, interesting discussion today.
DeleteJoin the group!
Are we still teaching the 5-paragraph theme (or some version of it), and why or why not? (See my handout "the funnel" at http://richrice.com/handouts.)
DeleteI found a lot of interesting stuff in the reading. The one thing that comes to mind first is that the synthesis of east and west is probably going to serve, at least on a national level, the Chinese better than it will Americans. This synthesis is of the Confucian and Western world view, the interior and the exterior. In their pragmatic, as described in the chapter, embrace of English, coupled with the more introspective Confucian view, would seem to lead to a more holistic perspective, or at least the opportunity for such. I think Americans would do well to engage in more of the Confucian introspection than we do as a whole.
ReplyDeleteThis could be seen in the sample passages in the latter stages of the chapter, where the student, free to express their views on the external view, applied some of the eight-legged format, the Confucian model, to the world they inhabit, the result of the current-traditionalist Western writing.
I also some some overlap between the 5-paragraph essay and the 5-policy and eight-legged formats. Those were much more sophisticated than the 5-paragraph model, but they were models nonetheless, models that called for squishing the square-peg of ideas into a particular round-hole. For me, I could see how each is limiting, whether more or less sophisticated than the other.
My experience in China leaves me unsure about a lot of this. The Chinese I worked with see English in a very pragmatic sense. They need to publish in English, but they were the cream of the Chinese crop. Every student in China is studying English, though they have little experience with English speakers. This exposure to English will benefit the nation as a whole, but many see it as having no value in their lives. It's as if they are in a sports academy and only a few will rise to the top and use what they learn. The rest learned it to see how well they could do, and when they couldn't go any further, they are left by the wayside. That might be overly pessimistic.
So glad you're joining us, Bradley! I agree initially that the synthesis is going to best serve the Chinese over the Americans; however, I would argue as you implied that the benefit of the Chinese will facilitate American benefit in trade and scholarly exchange. For example, the demand for native English speakers teaching in Chinese universities has recently increased.
DeleteSomething we discussed this week in the onsite meeting was the difficulty in constructing the 5-paragraph essay. I'll be teaching a lesson on the 5-paragraph essay to the composition pedagogy class and our visiting Chinese scholars in a few weeks. Meanwhile, I consider myself a very good writer, though I'm not sure I would master the bagu 八股 eight paragraph essay. I think it would be fun to challenge ourselves -- and I wonder if between the two of us we might find a Chinese professor willing to evaluate our work?
I didn't think to cc you on the email. I've facilitated a discussion exchange with Anhui University, Hefei province. Several Chinese students are engaging in discussion with American students (and a few profs) to improve their English. If you'd like to join, find me on WeChat (app) as brandybippes. I'll connect you to the discussion.
Well, just learned that typing in a comment before being logged in, and then logging in, will delete that message. Hate it when that happens. :-(
DeleteI have some ideas about who I could ask to look at an attempt at bagu. I have to admit, the complexity of that format is much scarier than the 5-paragraph essay. Maybe if we do well enough, we can apply to the civil service commission?
I'll check on wechat. I only have it on my phone, and I don't like doing extended conversations there, but we'll see what I can dig up.
Maybe later chapters will get into current approaches in China that are more akin to our own. I learned a lot about the inherent approach in the first chapter using Confucian rhetoric and value system as topics, and logical approaches/appeals; whereas our approach has more often been an internal logic without a standard topic. And that's an interesting point about who would learn/benefit more from understanding Chinese or American approaches to teaching English--Americans or Chinese. In a globally warmed world, maybe it's true that a rising tide puts us all in the same situation, or not.
DeleteI agree that WeChat is a difficult medium for extended discussion. You can download an android emulator to use WeChat on your PC or Mac, though even I in my highly advanced tech savvy (haha) have not done such. I found a bluetooth keyboard is highly portable and gives me almost the access I want to have with my iphone. It works well for the limited functions of WeChat.
DeleteNext meeting: Friday October 16, 9:00 a.m. TTU Barnes & Noble Starbuck's
ReplyDeleteRead & Discuss: Section 2 (up to page 76)
Please post questions or comments online for discussion onsite and online!
Having to add a comment as I can't seem to reply. This is for Rich's thoughts about contemporary practices. We had some presidents from various Chinese Polytechnics, the Chinese version of the community college, more like trade schools I would suggest, visit our campus a couple years back. They came on the day we were doing FYC portfolio readings. They commented that they didn't teach writing in their schools, and I don't know that writing is taught, in the way we teach it, in higher ed at all.
ReplyDeleteWhen I worked with faculty at Harbin Institute of Technology, one of China's "Big 9" I think it is, we focused mostly on cultural and conversational issues, but with some among us helping faculty individually with writing, which usually meant cleaning up and "perfecting" their English on work they were hoping to submit to English language professional journals.